Primal Endurance Podcast

Welcome to The Primal Endurance Podcast, where we challenge the ineffective, overly stressful conventional approach to endurance training and provide a refreshing, sensible, healthy, fun alternative. Going primal frees you from carbohydrate dependency and turns you into a fat burning beast! Enjoy interviews from elite athletes, coaches, authors and scientists on the cutting edge of endurance training and performance.
RSS Feed Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Primal Endurance Podcast





All Episodes
Now displaying: Page 1
Mar 8, 2019
Future Primal Endurance shows will be published on the Primal Blueprint Podcast channel. Please subscribe and enjoy the diverse content on this thriving channel. You'll see the Endurance shows designated accordingly for quick access at a glance. You'll also enjoy feature interviews from ancestral health leaders, shows dedicated to keto, and narrations of posts. 
In this fast-paced show, Brad hits you with a barrage of hot topics and reflections about healthy eating and training: Shifting from HIIT to HIRT, as advocated by Craig Marker at StrongFirst (listen to his Primal Endurance episode). Stands for High-Intensity Repeat Training. The importance of gut health, especially for endurance athletes who tempt gut dysfunction with long, hot workouts. How Brad healed his gut dysfunction by pounding probiotic foods and supplements and making his own kombucha. Brad's surprising recent test results from NourishBalanceThrive (listen to previous shows with Chris Kelly and with Dr. Tommy Wood), possibly indicating he should eat more food! A fantastic success story from UK, where coach Morgan has healed from serious heart problems with the Primal Endurance approach. Can I add 5 more beats to my MAF based on AeT test results? I'm concerned about going slower after a couple of months of MAF. Comparing the aerobic benefits of running and cycling and the cross training effect. A question about the great Walter George, 1880's era world record-setting runner, and his amazing "100-up" running drill. Finally, Brad describing his spontaneous, intuitive, sometimes keto, sometimes not eating patterns. 

We are switching the publication of Primal Endurance podcasts over to the Primal Blueprint channel. [00:00:34] 

When preparing for high Intensity repeat training make sure you are rested and motivated, then recover. [00:01:51] 

Poor gut health is very prevalent and we might not even know we have a problem. [00:06:23] 

Learn how to make your own Kombucha. [00:13:09] 

It is believed that Triglycerides to HDL ratio is a key to heart disease risk factor metric. (1 to 1 or better is the goal.) [00:17:05] 

Success story from Morgan Williams talks about how the primal endurance program helped him get out of the unfit coach trap.  [00:22:50] 

Lisa, age 48, is seeing limited results from Maffetone aerobic threshold. How to adjust your training is suggested. [00:25:34] 

When someone like MaryAnn is trying something new, it's okay to ask "What is normal?" [00:28:44] 

Mike asks: Running is much more taxing than biking. Is there a comparable maximum duration training run? [00:30:56] 

Mike also asks does building the aerobic base for running will help your cycling base and vice versa? [00:34:54] 

Sauna is highly recommended for recovery. [00:35:52] 

Lor asks about the 100-up drill. Is it a good way to build foot and leg strength for running?  [00:38:24] 

Brian asks about the Keto Diet.  What does Brad's eating day look like? [00:43:46] 

Do you know what happens to an animal that is stressed at the moment they die? [00:52:21] 

Dark chocolate is great but you should look at label and see "bean to bar." Cacao bean should be the first ingredient. Also you should see "fair trade" designation.  [00:55:24] 


Craig Marker Podcast

Jacques Devore

Chris Kelly

Dr. Ron  Sinha

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Walter George

Wild Idea Buffalo

Fast Food Nation Book

Brad’s podcast on chocolate

Feb 15, 2019

Brad welcomes back popular Australian guest Andre Obradovic to go off script and talk about real-life matters not related to workout strategy, but of critical importance to your happiness and effectiveness as a parent, partner or career person. If you caught Andre's previous shows, you will love his colorful, hard-hitting commentary about what it takes to succeed as an endurance athlete and his important call for "no muppets" (blind followers who can't think for themselves). In this show, Brad and Andre, both age 53 as it happens, reflect on their journey as fathers of kids who are now adult age and offer some choice feedback for young dads trying to balance raising kids with intense athletic and career goals. Yes, this show takes an important and memorable detour from the constant talk about training. You will love Andre's insightful commentary in fresh Aussie spirit. An important show to reflect upon, especially for young dads trying to do it all. 



These two experienced athletes and fathers talk about how to balance their lives. [00:00:16] 

What impact does our behavior as parents affect the children? [00:02:33]  

We can look back and see a culture without today's technology and yet we were still too busy to learn to relax.  [00:08:23] 

The parent needs to set the example of healthy eating, more sleep, healthier lifestyle. [00:15:15] 

What are some tips on how to teach your kids or partners to make healthier choices? [00:19:03] 

As you get older, how should you set your goals?  [00:21:18] 

Are the helicopter parents pushing too hard? [00:23:44] 

Think about how you are teaching your children about money. [00:27:55] 

It's a high priority to help your children learn to make healthy meals. [00:38:25] 

Stress at home can disrupt your performance at work and training.  Pay attention to family. [00:41:34] 


Andre Obaradovic


Life’s too short to suffer.

If you were to die tomorrow, how would you want your kids to remember you? To talk about you?

Jan 18, 2019

After the awesome big picture show about healthy living and avoiding the manipulations of today’s mainstream media and marketing forces, Brad welcomes Dr. Maffetone back for a show on the usual popular topics of endurance peak performance. First, Phil discusses the amazing marathoner Eluid Kipchoge, and how he can finally hit the magic 1:59 barrier. First, running barefoot would achieve a significant time improvement! Yes, hard to do if you have been in shoes for years. Second, getting muscular balance treatments, because hard training creates imbalances that increase injury risk and slow you down. Dr. Phil says even extreme endurance goals are not necessarily unhealthy for older folks if you adopt the correct approach. He cites examples of world class endurance athletes around age 40, and also recommends that you have more patience with recovery as you get older. On the topic of explosive training, Phil relates how important this is even for endurance athletes, who “epidemic” show physical and functional weaknesses. Try to add a vertical jump test to your MAF test as an excellent fitness marker. If you can’t exceed 12 inches from a standing start, you best add more explosive training. 

A couple great ideas: Sprint for 7 seconds several times, with long recovery periods between (~30 seconds) and repeat a couple times per week. Consider Maffetone’s “slow weights” idea, where you perform a single set of a single exercise, but repeat it several times a day. I have a hexagonal deadlift bar in my backyard for this purpose. Choose a weight that’s about 80% of your single rep absolute max and do about six reps. If you do this several times a day, you are talking about a fantastic increase in strength in a short time! What you are doing with these brief workouts is recruiting more of your existing muscle fibers to perform a function. This differs from the hypertrophy workouts when you break down and exhaust muscles, slam down protein shakes, and prompt the growth of bigger muscles—often these are for looking rad only and can obviously compromise endurance performance. With these brief single set, single exercise sessions, you avoid the risks and the adverse consequences of post-workout muscle soreness, something Brad complained to Phil about and he confirms is no bueno. Soreness leaves the muscles weak for a couple days, and if you get sore a couple times a week, well…FYI, did you know Ben Franklin was the one who made up “no pain, no gain?” Always fun insights from Dr. Phil. Enjoy, and check out his website and products!

It's time to start thinking about running barefoot. [00:00:43] 

We are now close to an athlete breaking two-hour marathon. Look at Eliud Kipchoge. [00:03:41] 

Muscles imbalance is a big concern. Posture and gait are important. [00:12:59] 

Running at the same pace with muscle imbalance could raise your heart rate 5 or 6 beats! [00:15:27] 

What kind of practitioner would deal with muscle imbalance? The assessment is really important. [00:17:19] 

The times of the marathon have decreased in recent years. Why have people slowed down?  [00:19:18] 

Diet is primary to the training. You cannot run away from a bad diet. [00:22:51] 

As we age, do we need to rethink the basic premise of these endurance goals? [00:24:16] 

What about in the explosive sports? [00:29:04] 

As you age, are there some modifications one would make to their training? [00:31:53] 

What kind of parameters do you recommend to assess whether the subject is recovered and ready for another explosive workout?  [00:36:18] 

Overtraining or undertraining? [00:38:49] 

Shouldn't we expect muscle soreness after workouts? [00:41:13] 

What is a jump test? [00:42:58] 

How can we build strength without getting weak muscles? [00:47:00] 

We can train the brain to learn to contract more muscle fibers within the muscle. [00:51:57] 

If you are not eating enough protein, it will be difficult to get stronger. [01:01:56] 

Not all vitamins you buy in a jar are healthy. Do we get enough Vitamin D? [01:03:53] 


Eliud Kipchoge

Phil Maffetone

Pocket Hercules


  • You cannot run away from a bad diet! (Tim Noakes)
  • We have a serious epidemic of weakness throughout the world. (Phil Maffetone)
  • Why would you want to sacrifice your health and fitness just to look better? (Maffetone)
  • People who put on a lot of bulk are not necessarily stronger. (Maffetone)
Jan 4, 2019

Dr. Phil Maffetone returns to the show and we take a few steps back to cover some big picture items. First, the tremendous amount manipulation and hype we are exposed to each day with mainstream media is destructive and unhealthy. Phil disengages from this stuff! Realize how we make impulse decisions based on primitive brain function, or alternatively can get over-analytical. Better to cultivate our intuition where we can leverage both powerful gut instincts with our rational mind skills. Phil describes the global “overfat” epidemic, and how you can strive to keep waistline less than half your height in inches. This will help you avoid the prevailing disease triad of chronic inflammation, carbohydrate intolerance, and insulin resistance. First step to health: Ditch refined carbohydrates (sugars, flour/bread products, sweetened beverages) for two weeks per Maffetone’s “2-week test.” Then you can reintroduce natural carbohydrates back in (fruit, sweet potatoes, etc.) and see what you can tolerate without adverse symptoms. For many people with insulin resistance and decades of junk food consumption, keto might be warranted. Check out Dr. Phil’s great articles and products at



We want to personalize our journey of life in a way that we continually build our health and fitness.  [00:02:50]

There are two ways that our brains work.  1. Instant gratification. 2. We think in an analytical way.  [00:07:35] 

Many writings are: "Here's how to do it." Sometimes it makes things worse. [00:12:11] 

Companies are allowed to convince us to be unhealthy. Pubic health education needs to help. [00:14:24] 

Sometimes a person has to experience pain for them to start to listen to advice.  [00:16:11] 

There needs to be a consensus about refined vegetable oils and their impact on public health. It's about the money. [00:20:07] 

What should a well intentioned person do about making decisions about eggs, for example? Or training styles? [00:24:04] 

People are often willing to latch on to tradition and emotion when making their decisions. [00:28:22] 

The problem is it is difficult for us to see if the advise we are getting is effective. Doctors tend to treat the diagnosis and forget there is a person there. [00:30:33] 

There is so much information out there, that people are overwhelmed and confused. The stress factor plays a huge role. [00:36:49] 

What are the causes of chronic illnesses?  [00:42:44] 

Chronic inflammation, carbohydrate intolerance, and insulin resistance causing people to be overfat. (85% of Indian adults are overfat.) [00:46:00] 

Measure your waist and hope that is is less half the height of your body. If it is not, then you are overfat.  [00:49:00] 

If we want to turn things around, what can we do to attack this problem? Get rid of refined sugar and carbohydrates. [00:55:17] 

One thing you may notice is that our brains work better, therefore our instincts and tuition are working better. [01:03:31] 




Is your waist less than half of your height?


We buy the sizzle, not the steak.


You can be normal weight and not obese and still have excess body fat.

Dec 8, 2018
Brad welcomes Logan Schwartz of to discuss evolved concepts of athletic training within the context of healthy living. It's time to reject the flawed and narrow focus of the traditional athletic training approach, where the focus is on work output connected specifically to your athletic goals. Logan, like other thought leaders, places the emphasis on overall daily movement and functionality over a devoted workout regimen. Of particular interest is the concept presented about conducting brief bursts of exercise output over the course of the day. Cranking about 20 deep squats in your cubicle, doing a few vertical jumps onto a park bench, or doing a few pullups every time you enter a certain doorway in your house. This kinda stuff adds up! Furthermore, you enjoy fitness adaptation benefits without the risk of overstress and overtraining that happens with prolonged, exhausting workouts.
Logan explains that any effort that even slightly exceeds your "basic adaptation threshold will improve your fitness. If you do 5 pullups at a time 10 times per day, that's 50 pullups a day. "There is a time to survive (such as a maximum effort competition) and a time to thrive (by training in a sensible manner and leading a varied and active lifestyle.) Many more important insights are offered throughout the show, and you will pick up some recurring themes revealing the progression of thought in the fitness world from other leaders like Katy Bowman, Dr. Kelly Starrett, and Craig Marker (who advocates for HIRT--High Intensity Repeat Training, over the more popular HIIT--High Intensity Interval Training.)  Logan comes to the table with extensive experience, having been a strength and conditioning coach for the University of Texas mens and womens basketball teams for over a decade. If you have an open mind and want to get better in any sport, listen carefully to this show and broaden your perspective about what training and fitness really mean!

We are losing the ability to have delayed gratification. What one sees on social media often is distorted truth.  [00:00:40] 

Are the current methods of training adequate or even appropriate? [00:04:59] 

What has Logan seen to help people stay healthy, use their potential, and avoid the pitfalls of injury? [00:11:27] 

We are seeing a lack of fundamentals. [00:00:15:00]

High intensity interval training is tiring. The idea is not how much you can endure over the length of the workout, it's the performance of each interval that matters. [00:20:25] 

We should get back to self-limiting exercise. [00:23:41] 

Train all day.  The body was not designed for what most of us do during the day. [00:25:43] 

The fitness business is a business convincing that you need them. [00:28:01] 

The sensible message is to sleep and eat well. The societal message has been, "if you want to get better, you have to work hard and suffer." Some people use exercise as a punishment. [00:35:54] 

I love my body, why would I have a “cheat” day? [00:38:30] 

Why does a person want to lose weight? [00:39:12] 

Much exercise is like processed food:  Planned and structured isn't necessary. Just move.  [00:41:20]

How might a person get redirected from a structured exercise program? [00:44:20] 

Gradually build from your personal threshold. Worry about just getting better each time. [00:48:45] 


Austin Vitality Coach

Katy Bowman


  • How hard can you work without working hard?
  • We should get back to self-limiting exercise.
  • You don’t exercise to get fit. You exercise because you are fit.
  • I love my body, why would I have a “cheat” day?
  • Some people use exercise as a punishment.
  • Man is the only animal smart enough to make it’s own food but is the only animal stupid enough to eat it!
  • I think there are people out there trying to kill themselves in the name of health and performance.
Nov 16, 2018

Brad delivers an opening monologue by emphasizing the important point that recovery requires energy in and of itself, so you have to adopt a bigger picture perspective than the narrow focus on delivering maximum energy output to workouts and taking recovery for granted. Also, (an aside!) Brad says if you are football fan there is blood on your hands and you should examine your conscience and moral implications of watching such a violent sport for our amusement. If you don’t devote proper attention and energy to recovery, big problems ensue and your training will become counterproductive. 

Brad also mentions his awesome new podcast called Get Over Yourself. Details at Subscribe and enjoy broader content matter about living a long, healthy, happy life. Questions covered: Is there such a thing as too low body fat for a marathoner? How does a former bodybuilder transition over to specific endurance goals? Does a vitamin/mineral drink count against fasting/autophagy benefits? Are MAF test results varying by air temperature (yes, big time!) ? Is drifting a bit above MAF during workouts a big deal (yes!)? How do you get enough calories during a busy day without carb snacks? What about using ketone supplements during training? Hang with us as we go to town!

Oct 19, 2018

Brad talks about an assortment of interesting concepts, including: Fasting (and not exercising at all) to beat out a cold. The nuance of the "S" pattern in the swim stroke and, while technically accurate, might mess up yo' head like a technical golf swing tip. The difference between improving your MAF performance time versus improving your MAF endurance (not slowing down as much over the course of the test); being chill about your MAF number and setting beeper 5 beats below MAF to take corrective action before you exceed; Doing a 180 mi ride after a 24 hour fast and consuming no food calories for 18 hours of the ride. And the critical difference between the popular training concept of HIIT (high-intensity interval training), and the evolved strategy of HIRT (high-intensity repeat training). Brad was first exposed to this concept by noted MMA trainer Joel Jamieson and it has greatly improved his performance and recovery from sprint workouts. HIIT = extra stress, fatigue and recovery time. HIRT = high-quality performance and less stress cost. Listen to the show and you might get some fantastic tips to optimize your training, particularly with the high-intensity stuff endurance athletes often mess up. 

What are we learning about recovery and general fitness, training, and diet? [00:02:55] 

From Paris comes this question: How is the best way to attack a cold? [00:11:51] 

Should we change our MAF heart rate every year? Honoring the MAF heart rate is extremely important. [00:17:15] 

How many miles do we need to do accurate measuring the MAF test? [00:19:58] 

David asks about the "S" strokes while swimming. David talks about his success when adapting to Keto/primal way of eating. [00:23:12]  

After training in a fasted state, is there any difference in fat adaptation in burning body fat vs. dietary fat? [00:29:03] 

Carl, a Norwegian living in the Middle East, says as I am relaxing my training I am putting a lower heart rate in thereby working to build the aerobic system. [00:32:07] 

Josh is an amateur bicycler is wondering about high intensity workouts or is it better to stick with mostly aerobic endurance training? (HIT and HIRT training) (high intensity and high intensity repeat training) [00:34:24] 

Zach from Arkansas is asking about his glucose readings.  If glucose is high, it indicates that the fight or flight response has been triggered. [00:45:17] 



Brad’s podcast (how to swim faster)

Brad’s podcast (How to run faster)

Dr. Cate Shannahan

Michellie Jones

Kelly Starrett

Brian MacKenzie: Get Over yourself podcast

Light Pollution Map

Periodization Training


Alert: Primal Endurance shows are soon moving to publish on the Primal Blueprint podcast main channel. Be sure to subscribe to the Primal Blueprint podcast and get regularly published Primal Endurance shows along with all the other great content at the PB Podcast channel. All existing Primal Endurance shows will be available on this podcast channel for eternity; you'll just have to switch over to enjoy new shows. 

Oct 12, 2018

Brad continues a lively conversation with Dude Spellings of Austin, TX. Dude describes how he overcame his frustration with his "slow" MAF training and allowed himself to build a strong aerobic base. Oh yeah, he also lost another 25 pounds to get down to lean, mean racing weight decades after being a hotshot young runner. Brad and Dude expound on the benefits and rationale for emphasizing aerobic training. Dude offers a great insight about measuring your aerobic output by time instead of by mileage. Top marathoners run 120 miles per week, but they are only out there for 10 hours, you know? Dude and Brad will get you psyched to delve into the wonderful world of cold therapy, and Dude exclaims that his cold exposure practice has made him a more chill guy in real life. He offers scientific references to mention that excess body fat might be a function of not just diet, but constant exposure to pleasant ambient temperatures, and excess blue light exposure messing with your appetite hormones. You'll be ready to take your first cold shower after listening to Dude and Brad!

In training for competing, we used to think that you had to produce as much work as possible without thinking of the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems. [00:01:55] 

Think about this: What is the highest purpose for being out that working out? . [00:04:30] 

By training with the MAF method, the performance can escalate without risking burnout. [00:09:22] 

The amount of time you are putting in is more important than the amount of miles. [00:11:01] 

Cold therapy is the natural way to go. After the initial shock of the water, you get the flood of chemicals that give you high. [00:14:08] 

The mental benefits of exposure to the cold are many. You can learn to take control over your life rather than being reactive. [00:22:00] 

Exposure to artificial light is common in our society.  This messes up our sleep cycle and the mitochondrial function. [00:23:48] 

Public consciousness is dragging behind. When the sun goes down, our body thinks it is to go to sleep, however, we expose ourselves to artificial light which is a contributing factor to obesity. [00:30:03] 

The unnatural light is why the ketogenic diet works for most people. [00:32:21] 

Playing speed golf opened Dude up to getting good fitness and nutrition goals in place. [00:33:26] 

It is an important element in life to have competitive goals. [00:37:42] 



Deena Kastor: Bronze medalist at Olympics

Brad Kearns Cold Therapy: Watch this YouTube video

Kelly Starrett: Coach, physical therapist, author, speaker, and creator of a blog, which has revolutionized how athletes think about human movement and athletic performance.

Marks Daily Apple: The (Maybe Not So) Definitive Guide to Cold Therapy

Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival



“If you run 100 miles a week at 10 miles per hour, that’s only 10 hours per week!”


Oct 5, 2018

Brad Kearns talks to a big-time peak performance enthusiast from Austin, TX named Dude Spellings. Dude is an avid Speedgolfer, primal/paleo/keto eater, cold therapy enthusiast, and endurance athlete devoted to the Primal Endurance approach. He is deep into the primal living journey and a student of all latest health topics and you will enjoy this two-part episode chock full of great tips from a real guy doing his best to balance a busy life, delay aging, and pursue peak performance goals. Dude was a high school running champion who let himself get overweight and out of shape. He returned to fitness with a traditional chronic approach and hit a plateau. He had lost 20 pounds but had 25 more to go. Part 1 starts with the compelling account of how Dude threw his back out six years ago and vowed to "not be that guy" in the years ahead. He was doing okay with health and fitness goals but realized he could be much better. He was suffering from an annoying recurring skin condition that wasn't responding to medical treatment but cleared when he optimized his diet. Pick up some good tips and reflections to be the best you can be from Dude, and stay tuned for part 2!




When he wanted to lose weight he tried the "old-fashioned way" using My Fitness Pal, counting calories. [00:03:28] 

Dude's back injury was a turning point for him. [00:07:05] 

He realized that cutting calories too much kills the weight loss! [00:11:59] 

He still believed that carbohydrate intake was needed for exercise. [00:13:56] 

It is estimated that 40 percent of the calories that you get in a restaurant are from the refined seed oils that are so bad for you. [00:14:52] 

A good starting point is to get in the habit of reading labels. You'd be surprised what you are eating even when you are trying to eat healthy!! [00:16:28] 

Some people find that their allergies, skin diseases, and other maladies disappear after they drop grains from their diet.  [00:21:32] 

The elephant in the room in the endurance community is the excess body fat. [00:28:14] 

The Maffetone's training was Dude's motivation for his great success. [00:31:22] 

Meal choices are part of your training. [00:35:22] 

The way he was training before was keeping him constantly sore with muscle tension.  [00:36:38] 


Dr. Peter Attia: Brad’s podcast with Peter covers longevity diet, and finding the drive.

Wheat Belly: Book on the grain-free lifestyle without sacrificing nutrition, variety or taste.

Dr. Phil Maffetone:  He says “Everyone is an athlete.”

Dr. Cate Shanahan: Podcast with Brad on why vegetable oils are toxic.


  • You have to get these toxic foods out of your system.
  • The elephant in the room in the endurance community is the excess body fat.
  • Meal choices are part of your training.
Sep 28, 2018

This episode was inspired by awesome email commentary from a devoted listener, Primal Endurance advocate, and accomplished collegiate level runner Jack McGinness. Kipchoge recently ran the Berlin Marathon in 2:01.39, shattering the previous record and closing in on the previously unfathomable 2:00 barrier. Kipchoge’s pace per mile was an astonishing 4:39. Most accomplished runners would be hard-pressed to match this pace for even a half a lap around a track, but Kipchoge can continue at this speed for 26 miles. This is truly one of the most phenomenal athletic performances of the past 100 years. 

What’s interesting about Kipchoge’s story is that, just as Dr. Phil Maffetone predicted in his commentary on the Primal Endurance Mastery Course, Kipchoge has become the greatest marathoner in history by training easier than other elite marathoners. Strange as it may seem, this guy rarely exceeds what we call MAF pace. Oh, Kipchoge runs like the wind, on muddy trails and high altitude in Kenya, but he explains that he tries to never exceed 80% of his capacity, instead of saving his energy for races.  

He is super consistent, super disciplined, but he never trashes himself, never gets sick or injured, and doesn’t even taper for races. He runs 110-120 miles a week with great discipline and joy. Hit some of the links in the show notes and learn how wise and thoughtful he is—far more than just a running machine! You will learn some interesting insights from this show, particularly when you compare and contrast Kipchoge’s eminently sensible approach with the ridiculous Type A chronic approach that is still the norm in America, particularly in the collegiate and high school systems. The cover of the book Primal Endurance says “Slow down to go faster,” and now Kipchoge has actualized this concept.


In the Berlin Marathon in September 2018 this runner came up with a 2:01:39 time. This computes to an average 4:39 mile!! [00:01:36] 

Running is a most satisfying sport.  But you have to do it right. The running community in the past has been doing it disastrously wrong! [00:04:05] 

Doping continues to be common in the running world. [00:06:28] 

What is Kipchoge training method? He never over-extends himself. [00:09:53] 

The only thing that is in somewhat conflict with the primal theory is he has a constant schedule. [00:15:42] 

If you are a person who's trying to break the three-hour mark or the four-hour mark, just apply these insights to your relative example. [00:20:28] 

The general problem with many American distance runners is too many type A runners who obsess over their workouts and paces and then fail to take care of the little things. [00:21:59] 

Kipchoge is going to change the game. [00:25:43] 



The science of running article analyzing his training


Kipchoge training log



  • Only the disciplined ones in life are free.  If you are undisciplined, you are a slave to your moods and your passions.
  • It’s not about the legs, its about the heart and mind.
  • The best time to plant a tree was twenty-five years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is today.
  • Motivation + discipline = consistency

Sep 7, 2018

This show is about rethinking the basic notions of athletic training, particularly the ‘no pain no gain’ model that’s been widely criticized but is still embedded into DNA of many endurance athletes. Brad offers insights from four experts that may just blow your mind and get you to make some changes in your schedule that can lead to big improvements, and reduced risk of overtraining, illness, injury and burnout. These insights place particular emphasis on the recovery aspect of peak performance, something that has been overlooked or taken for granted by hard-charging endurance athletes. It's time to wake up and implement an evolved approach to your endurance goals, with help from four great thought leaders Brad discusses in this show. Some brief highlights:


Dr. Phil Maffetone: Honor MAF heart rate and emphasize aerobic development. Never exceed 90% of max heart rate during high intensity sessions. 


Brian MacKenzie: The Power, Speed, Endurance guru and founder of Crossfit Endurance is now obsessed with recovery as the next evolution of athletic training--stuff like breathing practice, and hot and cold therapy! 


Joel Jamieson: Joel's Rebound Workouts entail doing a focused protocol of movements that can actually help speed recovery by stimulating parasympathetic activity. The workout includes breathing, stretching, mobility/range of motion exercise, doing positive lifts only (dropping the weight after lifting to avoid eccentric), and doing very short intervals with mindful heart rate lowering during long recovery periods.

Craig Marker: Craig and Pavel Tsatsouline of StrongFirst and StrongEndurance suggest that the popular HIIT training is inferior to High-Intensity Repeat Training, where you rest long enough to deliver consistent high-quality efforts and don't get exhausted by the end.

Whether you are a casual or serious endurance athlete, this show can transform your approach to sport, improving performance and reducing the risk of burnout. Listen to this show like your life depends upon it!

Brad reviews the most important insights gathered from his interviews with these experts.

Dr. Phil Maffetone: It's so important to get this out there: The Maffetone formula is 180 minus your age in beats per minute is the maximum fat-burning point that should be the goal of all people interested in maintaining the best training and fitness. [00:03:36] 

You need not ever exceed 90 percent of your maximum heart rate even during the most intense and explosive training sessions. [00:06:26] 

Brian MacKenzie, Founder of CrossFit: Breathing, Recovery, Training, Strength and Conditioning, Endurance, Sports Programming, Mechanics, Injuries, Nutrition, and Sleep Analysis are the pieces he puts together to create the total athlete. [00:10:31] 

The Ice Man, Wim Hof, trains people to overcome the resistance to cold with his breathing protocols. [00:14:57] 

Joel Jamison offers ground-breaking insights: Emphasis is on recovery-based training methods (rebound workouts). Those are the sessions you perform when you are trying to recover. [00:18:07] 

Craig Marker, Recommends High-Intensity Repeat Training which is to make the effort, rest for sufficient duration in terms of the quality of the effort.  [00:22:59] 

Four sprints and rest combo works the best for Brad. Focus on quality. [00:28:16]  

You can apply this same mentality no matter what your sport. The maximum sustained power session vs. the fatiguing session is important to understand. [00:29:31] 

Brad reviews the importance of resting between the mobility work. [00:34:43] can analyze your genetic profile to see what sport you are structured for. [00:37:59] 



1:59 Marathon



Win Hof

Joel Jamison

Phil Maffetone

Brian MacKenzie

Craig Marker



“The record will be broken by an athlete who is doing less mileage and less intensity than today’s marathon champions.” (Dr. Phil Maffetone)

Aug 31, 2018

Listen in as Brad Kearns and Dr. Phil Maffetone have a casual chat about an assortment of interesting topics related to endurance training and general health. Brad complains about his crash and burn patterns, where he feels great for a while and then has down periods of diminished energy and training output. Dr. Maffetone speculates that the cause could be an inappropriate maximum aerobic heart rate value, and urges a conservative approach when calculating your number. He also mentions low vitamin D as a common cause of fluctuating energy levels, and that athletes should strive to get up around 60 or 70 ng/mL. This is way above the mainstream recommendations and a very interesting insight for many sun-starved athletes to consider.

Regarding sleep, Dr. Maffetone urges everyone to get at least 7-9 hours of uninterrupted sleep each night. If you find yourself awakening in the middle of the night, it’s a sign of elevated cortisol levels and an overly stressful lifestyle. With high quality sleep each night, napping should be minimally necessary, but a nap of 30 minutes and no longer than an hour can be restorative.

Dr. Maffetone’s book, 1:59, discusses the possibility of a human running a sub-2-hour marathon and how it will happen. Maffetone suggests that a smart athlete backing off of the ultra-high volume of today’s elites (and running barefoot!) might gain some performance benefits. Maffetone also discusses the difference between the desirable overreaching in training to improve fitness, versus the undesirable state of overtraining (fatigue, depression, hormone imbalance). Brad and Phil discuss the interesting and confusing phenomenon that occurs in the first stage of overtraining. Here, sympathetic (fight or flight) activity is elevated, the athlete feels energized and aggressive, and PRs can even happen. Without a reasonable and intuitive approach, the athlete is headed for a crash when stress hormone production becomes exhausted. Enjoy this informative discussion with Dr. Phil Maffetone, including his own music framing the show! Learn more at

Show notes:

Brad asks: when I have been able to perform great athletic feats, why do I feel a crash and burn afterward? [03:06] 

  Brad talks about his stress while playing Speed Golf and how he found his heart rate higher than normal. [07:44] 

  The importance of Vitamin D testing and the vitamin’s optimal levels. [12:19] 

  How important is measuring heart rate variability for attending to your heart health and ability for recovery? [15:14] 

  A big part of recovery is getting a good night's sleep, meaning 7 to 9 hours of uninterrupted sleep. [17:40]

  Dr. Phil talks about departing from extreme overtraining, as mentioned in his book, The 1:59 Marathon. [21:52]  

  What is the difference between overreaching and the undesirable state of overtraining? [25:36]  

  Brad talks about his own experience with crashing and burning. [29:51]   

  Are recovery and rest more important than the training? [34:00] 

  We have to look at diet, rest, circadian rhythm, Vitamin D, and stress all together. The Kenyans are a good example. [37:42] 

  Even shoes are a problem for slowing your pace. [39:28] 



The more we recover, the stronger we get!

Selected Links from this Episode:

1:59 Marathon
The Healthy Golfer
Phil Maffetone


Aug 24, 2018

Host Brad Kearns talks to one of the true legends of endurance athletics, Dr. Phil Maffetone. Dr. Maffetone has advised some of the greatest endurance athletes in history, like triathlon champions Mike Pigg and Mark Allen. For decades, Dr. Maffetone has been promoting the benefits of aerobic development and how to protect and nourish health in pursuit of ambitious endurance goals. In this episode, Dr. Maffetone details how to get started with the Maffetone method of endurance training, something that will be of particular interest to any endurance athlete who has experienced fatigue, injury, recurring minor illness, regression or stagnation in performance and especially inability to reduce excess body fat.

Dr. Maffetone says to the first start with a self-assessment of your body, performance, and stress levels. Take into account all stress factors, such as consuming refined carbs, drinking too much caffeine, not getting enough sleep, doing too much training and maintaining an elevated heart rate. The second step is to identify your maximum aerobic heart rate (the 180 minus age formula detailed in his book, The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing) and commence a strict base building period. The third is to eliminate sugar and other refined carbs from your diet. Fourth, conduct a Maximum Aerobic Function test once a month to ensure that you are making steady progress in your aerobic development. Enjoy this informative discussion with Dr. Phil Maffetone, including his own music framing the show! Learn more at


Being fit does not necessarily mean that you are healthy. [02.40] 

  The difficulty of putting on events like triathlons and music concerts. [05:07] 

  How it’s hard to coach a hard-driving athlete to have patience and

  slow down their training. [07:30] 

  The problem of an incorrectly developed aerobic system. [10.09]

  The dangers of looking for a fight or flight reflex for satisfaction. [12:00]

  What can we do to balance stress, rest better and be healthier? [14.32]

  What are the first steps to eliminating excess body fat? Diet or exercise? [15:34]  

  If people build a really good aerobic base and want to fine tune their speed, how can they do that? [19:52] 

  Stress is something that needs to be addressed. There is physical, chemical (dietary), and mental/emotional stress. [23:16] 

  How to tell if you don’t have a good aerobic heart rate. [24:34] 

  Why you should get off sugar. [26:46] 

  The concept of "cheat days" is leading you on the wrong path. [28:53] 

  Get rid of your stresses.  When you have a healthier aerobic system, the body is meant to deal with stress. [30:52] 

  How do you build a better aerobic system? [35:43] 

  Dr. Maffetone spent years coming up with a heart rate formula (180 minus your age). What does this number represent? [00:39:50] 

  With a heart monitor, you will be able to get a good idea of how your body is progressing.  [46:38] What is this test? You strap on the heart rate monitor and establish a fixed course that you repeat. [53:04] 

  The important thing relating to competitive success is simply slowing down the average pace in workouts. [57:26]  

Read more at:

Aug 17, 2018

Host Brad Kearns catches up with Mark Allen, the greatest triathlete in history, who has a record six victories at the Hawaii Ironman and ten victories at the Nice, France World Long Course Championship. Today, he is a popular triathlon coach at, TV commentator, corporate speaker, author, and presenter of “Fit Soul, Fit Body” retreats with Brant Secunda, a Huichol shaman, and healer.

First, Mark talks about the importance of releasing attachment to outcomes and being committed to the enjoyment and appreciation of the process. He discusses how, after a series of unfortunate setbacks, Mark’s first victory in 1989 precipitated five Ironman attempts before he retired at the top of his game at age 39.

Mark talks about balancing the pursuit of extreme endurance goals with maintaining health and how research on Heart Rate Variability has been a great breakthrough in monitoring stress and planning training.

Mark and Brad discuss the importance of sleep when training and Mark elaborate on how he was able to live a normal, laid-back lifestyle once his grueling training sessions or competitive seasons were over.

Finally, they discuss how Mark has released a book called The Art of Competition, which blends stunning nature photography with inspirational quotes chosen by Mark for their significance to competitors seeking a healthy perspective and inspiration to pursue athletic goals.

Aug 10, 2018

By popular demand, Andre is back on the show! This engaging chap from Australia generated great accolades on his first podcast appearance, so Brad and Dr. Lindsay Taylor catch up with him again to talk about his life coaching strategies. Yes, this stuff has a direct and important application to your endurance goals and overall happiness and satisfaction. Andre describes his “Wheel of Life” program (you can download the wheel at, where you rank assorted lifestyle categories in order of importance, and also rank them in order of how well you are doing in each one. For example, if you rank your health high in priority but low in compliance, you identify critical areas to improve and reprioritize. 

Andre shares his own journey of becoming consumed by corporate life and falling so far out of balance that he destroyed his mental and physical health. It’s been a long road back to his existence today as a very popular endurance and life coach, as well as an elite age group triathlete. Andre is always full of levity and memorable aphorisms, so enjoy this show and consider checking out the Wheel of Life exercise as a great starting point for personal growth. Coaches: never ask “why?” for that’s a judging question. Instead, say something more open and nurturing such as, “tell me more.”

Andre talks about the Wheel of Life, his coaching tool. When one tries this assessment online,  the result is a good visual of the portions of your life.  [00:00:44] 

As part of his coaching technique, Andre uses the Wheel of Life  to help you analyze the balance in your life.  From there is can be used to look at your fitness. You then examine the results and look at what you feel about certain aspects of those results. [00:08:13] 

So after you gather this information, what are you, the coach, looking for? [00:12:31] 

Brad asks: What are the identified forces that pushed you off balance? His whole identity was totally wrapped up in being an executive; all about rank and position in the world. All about me. [00:24:25] 

This frantic position he found himself in was reflective of our society. We are searching for recognition from our peers and finding a sense of self importance.  [00:28:42] 

Often when you are involved in competitive activities is when you most need this help.  If you had a coach like this, you might very well have refuted the advice such as we are discussing here. [00:33:44] 

In coaching, we don't need to ask the questions because down deep everyone knows the answers. [00:34:59] 

Ask your partner to rate you on the Wheel of Life. [00:38:36] 

Listen to Andre podcast number 1. Go to Podcast no. 153

Andre Obradovic 

Wheel of Life: Free online assessment of the balance in your life.

International Coaching Federation



We are all searching for recognition from our peers and finding a sense of self-importance. (Brad Kearns)

How are the things you are doing contributing to your health, your future, and your family? (Andre Obradovic)

People don’t ask themselves those questions.  They know the answers and they would have to be more motivated. (Lindsay Taylor)

Aug 3, 2018

Brad Kearns tackles more interesting Q&A from Primal Endurance podcast listeners and book readers. Submit your questions at and they will get covered on the air.  While the questions relate to the specific needs of the individual, the answers are presented in a manner that applies to a broad audience. Listen and enjoy learning about the challenges and successes of your endurance peers, and come away with plenty of practical tips to help improve your training and competitive results

Dave Reed from the UK has been really working with the book since January and has adopted primal diet, MAF training and now is fat adapted.  He has been racing but finds his performance has dipped.  Would going MAF since January have caused a dip in my performance with the increased benefit being seen after a long period on this training or could it be some other factor? [00:01:16] 

Dave also inquires about MSP (maximum sustained power) training with the 4-3-2-2-1 (reps) format described in the book. This is a format that can vary among individuals who are working toward building with those high-quality sets.  [00:06:00] 

Kenny is a slow but committed triathlete and asks about drinking carbonated water. Is it okay? Also, why does he have trouble losing weight? [00:17:00] 

Brian is asking: Why does my MAF time improve so much faster on a bike than when I'm running? [00:20:18] 

A second question is how to respond to the folks who still think one should use carbs for high performance. [00:22:34]

Shannon has many questions about counting macronutrients.  There is no fat minimum. She is worried about going overboard on carbs. [00:32:19] 

Shannon is also asking about how to manage cravings and appetite. [00:39:47] 



  • An athlete who eats a low-carb/high-fat diet can, indeed, alter the metabolic fuel source they use during exercise and recovery in a different manner than previously believed possible and perform in a different manner than previously believed possible.
  • When you are counting macronutrients, there is NO fat minimum.
  • More protein consumption doesn’t always mean more muscle mass.
  • Sugar cravings in the evening are a sign that your ego is deflated! (Chris Kelly)


Brownlee Brothers: These well-known triathletes went viral when the one brother carried an ailing brother over the finish line at the World Triathlete Championships in Mexico. Brad mentions their diet is questionable.

FASTER Study: This study out of the University of Connecticut was aimed at discovering the role diet plays in how our bodies metabolize fat vs. carbohydrate during exercise.

Johnny G: This South African, a fitness visionary, created the Spinning movement. He also road in the Race Across America

Andre Obradiovic: He is one of the country’s leading coaches. Listen to Brad’s postcast with him: “Don’t Be A Muppet, Be a Powerful Fat-Burning Beast”

RAAM: The world’s toughest bicycle race.  Next one is June 2019!!

Lindsay Taylor: Listen to her podcast with Nourish Balance Thrive discussing brain training for the primal Keto endurance athlete.

Luis Villasenor: Everything you want to know bout the ketogenic diet is here.

Simon Whitfield: Look at his YouTube of the exciting finish in Olympic Gold Medal Race


Jul 27, 2018

Brad covers some very thoughtful Q&A, including where weights might fit into the seemingly rigid guidelines and how Primal Endurance differs from Primal Blueprint Fitness guidelines. He looks at the possibility of over-consuming fat and possibly compromising fat loss goals. Brad's super duper awesome cure for plantar fasciitis, how MAF might require you to slow down to a fast walk in the name of rebuilding your broken down body. How to integrate carbs into peak performance efforts and do they cause any trouble? More great stuff along these lines, thanks for the great questions, enjoy the show!

Kevin asks about lifting weights. Please explain the Primal Endurance rules on this activity. Why are you so tough on strength training? [00:01:34] 

Tori wants to know about what can she do after surgery for ACL regarding recovery.  What can she do about her diet since she won't be able to train as she has the past ten years? [00:06:01] 

Olivia has a wonderful testimonial regarding healthy eating. They are eating Keto and paleo and feels great.[00:13:07] 

David Porte. a 50-year-old trail runner, is a steady listener of the podcasts. What can be done about his plantar fasciitis? [00:15:27] 

Conrad asking about short sprints. What would be advised about altering my weekly schedule regarding sprints? [00:19:44] 

Darren has quite a running history. He asks about Maffetone's suggestions of one hour sessions with 15 minute warm up, 30 minutes at maximum aerobic heart rate, and 15 minute cool down. He is training for NYC marathon. What distances should I be training at?  [00:24:35] 

Matt: How do mid-race or pre-race carbs affect my ability to burn fat?  [00:29:23]

Derek is asking: What do you recommend to someone who loves Keto but expends 3000 to 5000 calories a day during constant activity and two highly intense workouts per day? [00:35:50] 



Dr. Mark Cucuzella: He is a professor at West Virginia University School of Medicine. Of his many specialties he has designed programs to promote healthier and better running and has also worked on getting sugar out of the hospital because he knows excessive sugar consumption leads to a host of ailments.

Brad’s podcast with Mark Cucuzzella This podcast is about how physiology affects food habits (and vice versa), carnivore diets, high vs. low-carb/keto for bodybuilding, exogenous ketones, how insulin sensitivity possibly affects BAT vs WAT fat depots.

Ted Mcdonald: Creator of barfoot running.  He has run the Inca Trail in Peru. He teaches yoga.

Paleo FX: The world’s premier holistic wellness event, covering healthy nutrition, fitness, sustainability, self-development, spirituality, relationships, entrepreneurship and everything in between.

Trail Runner Nation: They provide podcasts and social media connections for trail running, pacing, race nutrition, gear and much more.

UCan:  For a steady long-lasting energy without the sugar crash!!

Luis Villasenor:  A Podcast on strength training on a Ketogenic diet



You need to tie in what you are doing nutritionally in training and know exactly what is happening on race day. (Brad)

Jul 20, 2018
Host Brad Kearns shares the little known secret about Janet Jackson's racy lyrics in the song "If" that were imperceptible to the human ear when it was getting radio play in the 90s as a hit song. Horrors Casey Kasem! Brad talks about the overstimulation of the fight or flight response leading first to PRs and then to impending doom. A cool success story from James, who was running 14 min miles when starting MAF 3.5 years ago and now being able to hold the same pace at 52 beats per minute below MAF! How's your training gone over the past 3.5 years? Consider being patient and experiencing a significant reduction in your MAF pace, though not in a linear manner
96-year-old golfer getting some cameo props for his endurance in life. Jason Trew with a unique and creative way to stay below MAF while running faster spurts and then walking to keep watch from beeping. James Hall asks about the rationale of applying 180-age formula everyone, causing Brad to go off about his burnout experience followed by major medical misfortune in 2015 that he attributes strongly to a chronic training pattern where he routinely exceeded 180-age (by 12 beats in fact) due to using the inferior 75% of max heart rate calculation for an aerobic workout. Oh man, we talk about peeing blood and all kinds of stuff that will have you sorry you ever asked to increase MAF heart rate!! Enjoy this lively show with some memorable takeaway insights.
Jul 13, 2018

Brad catches up with Guinness World Record holding ultra-endurance athlete Tom Seabourne, a professor of Exercise Physiology at Northeast Texas Community College who has pushed the limits of human endurance with numerous finishes in what Outside magazine calls the toughest athletic event in the world: The non-stop solo bicycle Race Across America (RAAM). Tom and Brad reminisce about the old days where Tom was on the cheapest crew in the history of the race, while Brad was part of Johnny G’s most expensive crew in the history of the race. Tom was 103 miles from the finish line at 3,000 miles when he was eliminated on time. Heartbreak, but it got him “addicted” to the event, which he went on to finish several times. Cycling over 300 miles for 22 hours a day is pretty tough, but Tom’s crew follies were epic. Once, his team lost him in the California desert soon after the start. Another time his relay team members bailed in Utah! Tom also set a Guinness World record for the longest stationary bike ride of 185 hours - over 7 days (watching The Office re-runs helped pass the time)! The record performance, notwithstanding the “urine explosion” incident, that you have to hear to believe.

As a “horrible carb addict” during his ultramarathon cycling days, Tom actually developed Type 1.5 diabetes (fasting glucose 450!) despite being at 5% body fat. He also developed atrial fibrillation and atrial flutter, which are now becoming commonplace maladies among extreme endurance athletes. Learn what’s happening in the mind of an ultra king during these long efforts, which Tom describes as a flow-like experience. 


Brad welcomes Tom Seabourne who is doing amazing athletic exploits while battling various health conditions. [00:00:16] 

What is the Race Across America (RAAM)? What was Tom's experience? [00:01:45] 

How did Tom's plantar fasciitis get cured? [00:08:28] 

What is entailed in being on the crew for this race? [00:09:45] 

Never try something without having the training or having sponsors for it! [00:16:26] 

He had a history of horrible eating. [00:20:53] 

What about calories in and calories out? [00:23:35] 

What happened when Tom did the record-setting ride on the Spinner bike? [00:25:01] 

Tom talks about his atrial fibrillation. [00:31:35] 

Has Tom changed his approach to training since the heart problems? Is he addicted? [00:35:33] 

Does Brad think about going back to the triathlon? [00:39:07] 

Is something special about the sort of meditative experience we have when riding? [00:40:57] 

What is a Type 1.5 diabetic? How is he handling it? What is the difference between Type 1 and 2? [00:53:27] 

What is the ablation procedure for atrial fibrillation? Don't wait too long to take care of yourself. [01:01:08]  

Check out Tom’s book on Amazon called, Glitches Into Gold



Glitches Into Gold:

Race Across America:



Never try something without having training for it!

We are nothing more than the space between our thoughts.

Jul 6, 2018

Brad lays out a master plan to improve your running performance, looking beyond the obvious and sometimes misguided insights to push harder, add more speed workouts, or run more miles. Endurance athletes often overlook the importance of technique, and often exhibit horrible technique. No excuses are such a simple sport! Golf - plenty of excuses for a lousy swing (it’s very technical and hard to develop), but not running!

Some discussion of technique ensues, emphasizing balanced center of gravity at all times and good posture. The listener is urged to dive deep into the running technique instruction, drills and sprint workout videos in the Primal Endurance Mastery Course at Sprinting is great for technique development because the penalty for a poor technique is severe. Ditto for running barefoot on concrete - you very quickly learn how to strike the ground and absorb shock optimally, and generate explosive force with each stride. In contrast, cushy running shoes ruin your proprioception and enable lousy technique to become ingrained


When you sprint, make sure it’s an actual sprint. Even reps of 100-meter sprints are great for the hormonal, musculoskeletal and technique refinement benefits. Brad rarely goes further than this. Sprints are quality over quantity, both in the frequency of workouts (3x/month during intensity phases is plenty) and duration of efforts. Most endurance athletes make their “speed” workouts a suffer fest (ahem, 6 x 800m and so forth). They just get exhausted, don’t really run explosively, and lose out on the benefits of actual sprinting. This show will be a real eye-opener for how to integrate high intensity into your schedule the right way and get you thinking more about good technique instead of just shuffling along. 


“The penalty for technique errors and not properly absorbing the impact is severe.”


How does one build aerobic base efficiency? [00:00:58] 

What is the cut-off point 50-50 performance? [00:05:30] 

What are the benefits of doing super hard sprinting? [00:07:19] 

Dorsa flex foot is like imagining pedaling your bike over hot lava. [00:08:40] 

A good way to teach people how to run is to have them run barefoot on cement! [00:10:58] 

How does one rewire the Central Nervous System to be more efficient? [00:13:59] 

How often should a person sprint? [00:16:09] 

What are some good workout suggestions? [00:17:23] 



Barefoot Ted

Primal Blueprint

Jun 29, 2018

Brad lays out a master plan for you to improve your swimming performance in multisport events. And no, sorry, it’s not about pushing harder and grinding out more yards. It entails a strategic approach where you emphasize the right things and work smarter instead of harder. Let’s consider that there are three components to swimming performance: technique, muscular endurance, and cardiovascular fitness. Technique is by far the most important factor for improvement. The report card of most triathletes might look like: D or F in technique, B or C in muscular endurance and an A+ in Technique is best refined at a slow pace, not when you are fighting to make an interval time. Slow down to go faster - sound familiar? This is when you can best rewire new and improved neuromuscular patterns and make them stick. “Nerves that fire together wire together,” says Dr. Kelly Starrett. Muscular endurance can be developed with dry land exercises that are vastly more time efficient than swimming. Check out the Vasa trainer or Stretch Cordz and hit it hard for 10 minutes; it’s similar in muscular benefit to an hour swim (and remember, you already have an A+ in cardio!) Get out into open water as often as possible, and if you are in the pool, simulate open water by sighting every few strokes or closing your eyes for a few strokes to check your balance. 

Finally, conduct workouts that simulate the race experience, such as time trialing for 1.5k (Olympic) or 2k (70.3) or even 4k (ironman) and immediately jumping on your bike for a time trial. Yes, dripping wet and fussing with wet feet into shoes or water dripping into your lenses. If you are dedicating your season and paying a zillion dollars to enter an Ironman, at least get into the open water for a 4k nonstop swim, then immediately jump on your bike for a long. We don’t want surprises on race day. 

Brad uses paddleboats as a comparison to explain human swimming technique. [00:00:49] 

What can you learn from comparing your stroke to a boat's propeller's action? [00:05:41] 

It is important to find the still water for your stroke. Learn the difference between "Lift Propulsion” and “Drag Propulsion." [00:08:18] 

Technique, muscular endurance, and cardio-vascular fitness are the three main areas of the swim stroke. [00:13:45] 

What is a description of a streamlined position in the water? [00:19:54] 

How do you engrain good technique or revise flawed patterns? [00:23:15] 

You might want to focus on your stroke rate rather than stroke length. [00:30:25] 

How does one improve muscular endurance? [00:32:55] 

How important is it to simulate the competitive experience as I train? [00:40:42] 


Dr. Kelly Starrett

Stretch Cordz

Vasa Trainer


Jeff Float

Jun 22, 2018

Host Brad Kearns ups the ante and records this podcast as a Facebook Live event! You can find the video to the show archived on the Primal Endurance Facebook page. Frequent contributor David Lapp weighs in on the do's and don'ts of cold water therapy (use away from the training stimulus). An interesting question is posed about whether high ketone levels might enable magnificent endurance feats at a fast pace (sorry, no can do; the natural laws of the universe apply to fitness, and you will get tired if you aren't prepared to go long...ask Brad when he tried to run 15 miles with Dr. Steven and made it only 7 before tying up). Another interesting question about an adverse telomere length test, and can one improve their longevity profile? Yes, including improving your time in the one-mile run to deliver a strong longevity benefit. Sebastian Bach of Skid Row gets a cameo, trip out on that.

David Lapp has asked if cold therapy is best right after workouts. [00:00:56] 

There shouldn't be a big need to stretch unless you are overtraining!  [00:07:09] 

What about rolling out the IT band? [00:08:23] 

Should one push up to a higher heart rate? [00:10:10] 

Is fat adaptation the reason for my improvement or the MAF way of training? [00:12:35] 

Be cognizant that you may be ingesting food outside the recommended 12-hour window. [00:15:58] 

How does Brad make Kombucha? [00:21:02] 

Charles age 42 asks: "If I'm in ketosis, could I run a marathon and just keep going if I run slow enough?" [00:24:36] 

Paul age 53 says:  "My telomeres tests show that my body is 13 years older than my chronological age! YIKES!!! What can I do?" [00:30:54] 

Aerobics Institute in Texas predicts longevity with a test of a one-mile run. [00:40:57] 


“There shouldn’t be a need to stretch unless you are overtraining.”

“Keep your caloric ingesting within a 12-hour window.”



Aerobic Institute

Ageless Body, Timeless Mind

The Maybe Not So Definitive Guide to Cold Therapy

Brad Kearns Chest Freezer Cold Plunge

Brad Kearns Morning Green Smoothie

IT Band

Eating Academy

Sami Inkinen


Ben Greenfield

21-Day Primal Reset


Jun 15, 2018

Brad fields many interesting and unusual questions in today's podcast.

Question from Charles: What entails maximum sustained power training? How often should a person do this?  [00:01:27]

Brad warns about the danger of road cycling. [00:12:11] 

Brad explains workouts done properly. [00:18:08] 

David Lapp asks: How do you get rid of the bad habit of chronic training patterns?  [00:23:13] 

What is the argument against consistency? [00:29:04] 

Brad gives the secret password for a discount on the Primal Endurance course. [00:34:01] 

Todd asks: If one takes a long walk or a hike at a brisk pace,  is it possible to still trigger the flight or fight response in the body? [00:35:36] 

Travis asks about his frustration of trying to adjust to the MAF training. [00:41:15] 

The cutoff point for 50-50 (50 percent aerobic and 50 percent anaerobic) is a race that lasts 1 minute and 25 seconds.



“A little goes a long way. Make sure you get rest.”


“Of all the dangerous things you may do in your life remember that road cycling is the number one most dangerous thing you can do.  Be careful out there!!”


“The cutoff point for 50-50 (50 percent aerobic contribution and 50 percent anaerobic contribution) is a race that lasts 1 minute and 25 seconds.”




Jun 8, 2018

Host Brad Kearns talks to Andre Obradovic from Melbourne, Australia. Andre is a highly engaging personal trainer, triathlon coach, and elite level performer in the 50+ ranks at 70.3 triathlon—ranked 10th in the Ironman All World Athlete rankings for Australia, the most competitive triathlon environment on the planet, mate. Andre’s remarkable story of transitioning from a “little fatty carb burner, sucking up food like a pool sweep machine” back in 2011 to a lean, mean, fat burning beast will inspire you to trust the process and be the best you can be. Basically, Andre cut processed carbs, slowed down his training pace, threw in some mobility/flexibility and power training, and started getting healthier and faster. He went from needing an energy gel to complete a 10k run, to improve his marathon time by 17 minutes despite being 7 years older.  Now he is so committed to the primal approach that he refuses to train a prospective client in his gym until they agree to transition from a SAD diet (Standard Australian Diet - yes they wolf down Weetabix Down Under) to a nutritious, primal-style diet. 

Andre peppers in some highly entertaining and memorable quotes during this show. Trust the process, don’t be a “muppet” (a blind follower of what Andre calls “conventional stupidity”), don’t fritter time away on “Wastebook”, and when you’re running a marathon, focus on a rapid cadence with balanced center of gravity, and try the mantra “Glutes On! Hips Up!”—yes, technique matters even when you’re jogging along at marathon pace. Try training and even racing without a watch to increase focus on form and intuitively optimal effort.  

Andre relates how only two years ago, he was hopeless in the gym. He studied the Maximum Sustained Power concept detailed in Primal Endurance book and Mastery Course and even booked a private Skype session with MSP guru Jacques DeVore to get a custom program designed. Yeah, this dude you line up against in the 50-54 division is going into the gym and hitting the hex bar deadlift with multiple sets at 97 kilos (that’s 213lbs for a guy weighing a buck-forty - amazing!), along with numerous complementary exercises like lat pulls, clap pushups, Bulgarian split lunges (sounds hard), Swiss ball core work, and explosive lunge walks. Yes, friends, this is the picture of the evolved multisport athlete — grabbing podiums spots while training more sensibly and less exhaustively. This is not about flawed and dated “quality vs quantity” debate, but rather about eating right, balancing stress and rest at all times, honoring the MAF heart rate for aerobic development, looking at the big picture of training that includes flexibility/mobility and strength/power as well as endurance, making intuitive decisions (Andre does an extensive warmup in the gym and then has a “check-in” moment before he proceeds with the hard stuff.) Finally, Andre embodies that relaxed, “no worries, mate,” Aussie ethos where you tone down the misplaced competitive intensity and enjoy the journey. Andre reminds us that life is short but we are dead for a bloody long time, so you might as well make your best effort. Enjoy the show. 


Andre Obradovic tells us his outstanding accomplishments and has good tips for maintaining health and recovering from stress caused fatigue.  [00:01:20] 

Does he really run marathon at his MAF heart rate? [00:04:25] 

After gaining weight, he was transformed back to normal healthy weight because of the dietary changes he made. [00:06:52] 

Flexibility/mobility training is most important. [00:15:23] 

Should you be focusing on your time and heart rate? [00:20:29] 

Why are we in such a rush? [00:24:40] 

We should be aware how stress affects the family. [00:27:23] 

What does he mean by his "gluts and high hips" mantra when he is running? Why should we run with barefoot? 00:29:19] 

You ought to be able to race without data. [00:32:41] 

How does (MSP) maximum sustained power correlate to endurance competitive goals? What is Andre's workout routine?  00:36:59] 

Checking in on our bodies is so important. [00:43:53] 


- I go against conventional stupidity!

- Don’t be a Muppet…get off the couch!

- Personal trainers should be talking about diet before the physical training.

- The endurance athlete’s perceived sign of success seems to be training themselves into exhaustion.

- You ought to be able to race without data.

- Think Wastebook instead of Facebook!

- Checking in on our bodies is so important.


Andre Obradovic


Primal Endurance Mastery Course

Jun 1, 2018

Brad Kearns tackles more interesting Q&A from Primal Endurance podcast listeners and book readers. Submit your questions at and they will get covered on the air.  While the questions relate to the specific needs of the individual, the answers are presented in a manner that applies to a broad audience. Listen and enjoy learning about the challenges and successes of your endurance peers, and come away with plenty of practical tips to help improve your training and competitive results.

Dan (?) Can you elaborate on what is a suitable domain for self-experimentation vs. the core principles that have remained unchanged in your routine over the past several years? Can you comment on the relative merit of Fartlek vs. occasional dedicated speed workouts?  [00:00:37] 

David Lapp asks whether one can still do long distance Ironman-length triathlons after age 50 and be healthy? [00:09:26] 

As I am learning to go with the low carb diet, will my fasting lead to not eating enough? [00:20:14] 

Thomas Peterson: Can you please compare and contrast the benefits of doing short speed work during a normal 180 minus age run vs. a dedicated speed workout? [00:29:31] 

Thomas also asks: What are the principles that we should never change come hell or high water? AND What are the aspects of fitness where we should feel free to experiment? [00:30:17] 

Dr. Ted asks "Do I need to add more speed work or race pace runs to help me finish better?" [00:37:16] 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next » 9